Fury of the Film Fan Forums

Since I keep bringing up problems with what's happening with M. Night Shyamalan's "The Last Airbender", I feel that since the brand new "controversy" section of the forums has been put up, I feel now is the time to have people talking about it here. It's an issue that people keep talking about but people mostly shying away from.

So what do you all think that the way how race relations in Hollywood is being treated? Great, fair, improving, or just downright terrible?

For me, it's somewhat improving but after seeing what happened with TLA and even King of Fighters, I really put that into question. After looking back at my past posts, I sincerely apologize to those who I offended and I hope to start anew.

Thanks again, DistantJ and most of all, Fury for bringing me back to what I forgot about why I was here in the first place: to share our love for movies.


Share your thoughts below...

I think it's fine, it's really a person-to-person basis... I don't think M. Night Shamalangadingdong specifically said "I ain't hiring no Asians", but I'm sure there are directors and producers around who have prejudices, like in any profession. That doesn't mean the whole of Hollywood is...

I mean if you ask me, that's like saying bus companies are racist because you met a racist bus driver.

After seeing what happened with "21", and now with "TLA" being a very prominent example, I'm starting to get that feeling that something isn't right with the decisions behind Hollywood's doors. I know that not everyone in Hollywood means it, but that doesn't excuse them. Financially-based discrimination instead or ideological discrimination is still discrimination. So how is that acceptable.

Since we start off well, from now on all race in Hollywood discussion should come here, instead.

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Added: August 02, 2009, 05:47:08 PM



With building evidence against the company in which all of the employees are doing the same thing, it could be. Not saying all, but it could fit into the possibility. Plus, it's been in the news that the shampoo giant Loreal, is becoming known that their treatment of people of color with their products is not pleasing.

Looking at this video and it really hit me hard that Hollywood's treatment of Asians is far from the best...

21: The Movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK5jTZYccT4&feature=channel_page#lq-hq)

Lyco I'm gonna help you out here.
 
           What DistantJ is saying , nobody minds you voicing your opinion and getting your point across, I think we can all agree that's something we want to encourage here but there is a difference between sharing an opinion and being dogmatic. I read a lot of the posts and a lot of it sorry to say is filibustering. You're trying to drive the same point as if trying to convert someone and that's not healthy nor is it even an up building conversation.  We get your points, we really do and you have fantastic views and incredibly insightful posts backed by tons of data but you gotta take it easy when talking about things and not sounding preachy.  
        
As for my personal opinion about the whole matter,I'll say this.  The Shawshank Redemption stands at #1 best movie on IMDB. I agree, the movie is perfect and amazing and beautiful annnnnnd miscast if you want to talk about direct adaptations.  In Stephen King's original story, Red was written as a white Irishman. In the movie, they left the line, "Maybe it's 'cause I'm Irish", in as a joke, even after they had cast Morgan Freeman as Red.

now, did it matter that Red was black and not white? Nope, because his character nor the setting demanded for color to be an issue. Unless the story is about the culture of the individual it doesn't really matter what color they are. For example, in Gran Torino Eastwood HAD to get Asian actors because the whole core of the story was about his racist views and overcoming that. Eastwood found asian actors for his Gran Torino movie but look at every review out there and they will all talk about how weak the supporting cast was. Did they have a hard time finding Asian actors? I don't know I'm not a casting agent Ibut I am seriously going to assume there's not nearly as much fine Asian actors as there are in ..well..Asia!

Another thing you have to take into account is how different the acting styles are in different countries.  Asian films have their main actors perform a certain way that's fine for that culture but for here , would bore audiences to tears despite the great action they can do. The long stares, the dramatic showdowns, the long pauses into the distance. That's all fine and well for Asian films but for American films the demand is different which is fine , I wouldn't want the same type of movie in all my countries no?

I once used the example of recasting Captain America as Black. Would it matter? I don't think it would, why should it? There's Black soldiers who fought in WWII. Now...if it DID matter,  Would you rather have Keanu Reeves or Denzel Washington playing Captain America?

Hollywood may be comfortable casting certain types but there's certainly no agenda. The main agenda is getting people into the theaters. They don't see black, red, yellow or brown all they see is Green. Truth is as much as we hate the word we are minorities in this country. It's slowly changing but for now it is what it is but everyone has a chance to step up and do their thing. If it really was racist Lost wouldn't have some of it's best characters Asian.

well to sum this all up. Color doesn't matter at all, acting ability does. When I hear who's being cast for a film I want to know if this guy can carry a film not if he looks like the character. looking like the character is an added bonus. 

@Fury

Sorry for making it too personal but I've been surrounded by much bigger fools outside of this forum before I got here, so once again, I sincerely apologize to you and everyone here but at least understand where I got my frustrations from.

Controversy aside, I don't buy Hollywood's excuses one bit. Hollywood has managed to cast East Asian actors for the main roles for Memoirs of a Geisha. Now, if we ignore the problems, me personally, I don't mind when Chinese and/or Korean actors play Japanese characters and vice versa. Now if they actually cast non-East Asian actors to play these East Asian characters, now that would a more BIGGER problem. If you want to see something similar, go look at Bryan Singer's "Valkyrie" where they cast American and British actors to play historical German characters. What's the problem with the film? Lacks authenticity.

Additionally, Martin Scorsese made Kundun: a biopic of the Dalai Lama and that reached high critical acclaim here and British director, Danny Boyle has no trouble finding excellent Indian actors for Slumdog Millionaire and it was definitely a huge success, both critically and commercially and did anyone forget how much influence and how much Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon made in American film history? To this day, there has yet to be any foreign film that captures the same critical and commercial success as CTHD.

Converting? I wouldn't say that is my main goal since my main purpose is explaining the contradictions of Hollywood and what they usually do and this is no exception. Main goal for Hollywood is money, but can't they just take a risk and just cast Asian/Native American actors for something like this? It calls for it and CTHD and SM were proven to be legitimate hits which don't have any white actors in those films whatsoever. I also dislike that notion that there are no good Asian actors out there where there are many films that showcases their talent outside of what they are stereotypically depicted.

Discrimination from a money making perspective is still discrimination. Due to the source material, it makes sense. Would the Harry Potter series be great as it was without being set in London, England or casting all British actors? I don't think it would be the same. In my opinion, with this apparent whitewashing, they should have just scrapped the project if they are not to give it the respect it deserves.

Acting is important, no doubt about it but there's nothing wrong with casting appropriately due to settings that takes place in different eras and places outside of where we usually see European-inspired settings. For example, you want to make biopic movie of a famous African warlord set hundreds of years ago in the past and back then, there are no Caucasian Africans who is a king during that time and who should be cast for that role? I keep on saying this again and again, why sacrifice one quality when you could have both? So why is considering being a certain race and a talented actor be a bad thing for certain projects?

As for "The Shawshank Redemption" example, its still set in America and as for the race of Red, that doesn't matter for me, either. As for "Gran Torino", it's been explained that they're first time, inexperienced actors and it isn't exactly fair to compare them to a great veteran actor like Clint Eastwood. Are there better Asian actors out there? Sure, there are and if casting these inexperienced/first time actors were the best they could find, they didn't even try harder and it didn't exactly move Asian actors to more mainstream respectability, now do they?

With recent movies, I really get the feeling that Hollywood doesn't treat Asian actors fairly compared to the rest of the others. Please note that what I am saying here is that you're right there are some roles where race isn't important and acting is, but there are other times where race IS important for the roles and not casting them the way they were suppose to be, pretty much destroys it. Saying that race isn't important for ALL acting roles is pretty much BS in my opinion and not very realistic. Not saying that everything needs to do it but you get what I mean.

Like I said in my earlier example where an ignorant fool I've seen in the IMDB boards said that he feels that John Woo's new epic film, "Red Cliff", which is strongly based on the famous true story of the famous epic Chinese story, "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" claims that it would do a lot more better internationally and here in North America to have Robert Redford, Nicolas Cage, Al Pacino, Robert DeNiro and many other great Caucasian actors to play the main characters in this film and he even admits that they would do a much superior job than the Asian actors chosen in the film.

Do I love/like these actors? Of course I do, but will that make me forgive the race issue in the movie if Hollywood actually cast the film this way? Where the Chinese names and settings are all kept but all of the main central characters are white? Of course not! Even if they are great actors, I would never accept them in these roles in a movie like this, at all! If you want a good example where casting by race and acting is equally important, well, there you go.

If Hollywood would ever do this, it would not only be a huge disrespect for Chinese communities, but it would disrespect Asian history and pretty much, all of Asia! Plus, in the upcoming King of Fighters movie, they cast white actor Sean Faris as one of KOF's popular characters, Kyo Kusanagi which is pretty obvious that it is a name that is NOT associated with Caucasians.

This is the most blatant, excellent example of how stupid and pointless whitewashing an Asian character is like since in the games, there are plenty of Caucasian characters from all over the world including plenty of other Asian characters to balance it out. All of the other Asian characters in the upcoming film got cast with Asian actors but not Kyo? Why? In the games, his Japanese heritage plays an important role in his character development and he has two BIOLOGICAL Japanese parents! He's not adopted, he doesn't have any white relatives, it's 100% FACT in the games that he's Asian! Due to this casting, it pretty much destroys his character. If they really want a white main character, get American fighter, Terry Bogard as the main character! He's also popular with the fans too!

There, these are my frustrations for why I despise what they are doing with "The Last Airbender" and with how hypocritical Hollywood is for the longest time and I would not feel ashamed about boycotting and/or badmouthing this film. Will I see the film? I still haven't seen the Dragonball movie and after hearing so much negativity surrounding it, I still have no interest in seeing it.

If the race of the characters is trivial, why is it that the world Avatar best resembles that of East Asia? The Air Nomads resemble Buddhist monks, and their temples reflected that. You can't look at the Earth Kingdom and not say that it wasn't inspired by Ancient China. Even the Fire Nation's pagodas obviously resembles Japanese architecture. If the race of the characters is trivial, then the setting for the show is trivial too.




After seeing the decisions for this movie and the decisions on how they're treating it, I have no respect for them and I highly disagree with that. Did you see my references about the controversy behind the film, "21" and how different, the original source material was like? It's based on a true story and why change the original cast of characters who are Asian AMERICAN where their ethnicity plays a key role in the original story and turn the majority of them white in the movie? Why change that?

It's not about a quota. It's about every once in a while, maybe letting people of color be the main heroes of stories based on their culture and centers on them, and not turning it into a Generic White Hero's journey through an Asian fantasy land. Do I even have to explain why I dislike The Last Samurai or my heavy disappointment with The Forbidden Kingdom?

To end this conversation, can we move the topic of race in the new "Race & Hollywood" topic I formed in the "Controversy" section? I really mean it and it's a great idea to form that section since I feel it's appropriate to have that topic conversation there.

Again you don't listen and again you repeat yourself.

I'm sorry, but now you're just shoving your fingers in your ears and going "la la la la". As if you WANT discrimination to exist and for you to be the superhero who swoops down in his red anti-discrimination cape and... posts on forums.

You know what the truth is about you? You, sir, are superficial. You're more interested in high cheekbones and double fold eyelids than the stuff underneath that. You think you know Hollywood better than the rest of us. You saying "it'd be okay to cast Koreans" etc. would be extremely offensive to Chinese people, you realise? Far more than hiring an American actor to play the role in an American movie. I mean you might as well have said "so long as we hire somebody with slitty eyes" or got somebody to squint and stick his teeth out throughout the film. Complete hypocrisy.

Wait, didn't you say earlier that race isn't important but acting is more important? I thought that since you said that race isn't an issue, I thought you wouldn't mind seeing Chinese/Korean actors play Japanese characters. Did you object to the time where Korean-American actor John Cho played Japanese-American character, Hikaru Sulu in Star Trek?. I didn't and I find him great in that role. Now who's being hypocritical?  :-\

Actually, I did listen to you but you're beginning to sound like, by the state of your tone, that casting by race no matter how appropriate for the movie or who makes it is somehow not a good thing for Hollywood because it's "unrealistic". Where the hell did you get that?

I don't spend most of my time in this forum only, I go spread the word publicly as best as I can by writing letters and contacting media who are interested in this story. It's not easy but it's better than doing nothing about it.

On the contrary, you're not even getting my point.

So you call casting actors by race for everything a bad thing? Throughout all this time, I have never once said I want Asian actors to be the main characters for EVERYTHING in Hollywood. I want a cast for what's appropriate. So for casting based on race, it depends. For a movie set in Ancient China, who would you cast? In a movie set in Ancient Greece, who would you cast? In a movie set in India, who would you cast? In a movie set during the American Revolution, who would you cast? Casting actual actors who's origins fit those descriptions would be great but even casting directors admit that casting the exact ethnicity is a bit of a hassle. Are you one of those people who don't think the "all look the same" stereotype is only with Asians? Please. White actors get to have the freedom to be cast in between as American, British, Irish, Scottish, Russian, German and many more European ethnicities all the time in Hollywood but why shouldn't East Asians do the same but with Asian ethnicities?

All that I am saying is that movies should be cast appropriately due to how the settings were originally established! You think Hollywood does this to Asians, only? Don't be ridiculous, it happens to everyone in Hollywood too. There is a difference between race and ethnicity. So if Japan, Korea and China don't have their infamous tensions with each other throughout history, if they managed to settle their differences, would they even care that their actors are playing each other? IF they would get over their differences, no, I don't think they would care.

Just because it's American made, doesn't mean the characters within HAS to be American. Second of all, it makes perfect sense to fight against the casting of TLA because there is a justifiable argument that the characters of this movie SHOULD be Asian and Inuit. You can't provide evidence for every movie, but with TLA, you definitely, absolutely can. The difference is, for other movies, the characters COULD be Asian. For this one, they SHOULD have been, and we can explain why. That is why we are fighting here. You apparently just want us to "let it go" so you can feel less guilty about seeing it in the theater. It's not going to happen.

Plus, why does all fantasy have to be white by default? What's wrong with having Asians be the main characters in a fantasy story that's heavily based on their culture? I don't see anything wrong with it.

What's going on with this movie is the exact thing that Mako spent his entire career fighting against - Asians being relegated to the background and stunt-double roles because they're seen as having inferior acting abilities.

I'm not upset that Asians aren't in every movie. I'm just upset that Caucasians ARE.

White people are in every movie...are the MAIN characters of every movie, to the *exclusion* of all other races.

Even when it makes no sense for them to be there. Even when they have to be shoehorned in. And without fail, even in a story about Native Americans hunting Buffalo in the American West, or about Meiji Dynasty Samurai in Japan, or an ancient Chinese legend of a Monkey God, there will stand Mighty Whitey to save the day. Maybe he's the only white person in the cast! But he will be the Big Damn Hero, and the people and their culture only serve as fodder for the hero's person growth and journey.

I don't get upset at individual movies (especially those based on existing source material) for having white heroes. It's their prerogative. It's allowed! I enjoy many white heroes; who doesn't?

But I am ticked off that it seems no movie in Hollywood can possibly happen WITHOUT white main characters. Even when they are based on explicitly non-Caucasian characters. Even when it makes no sense and they look so out of place in furred parkas and Tibetan robes. And especially because it means that no people of other races can have a chance to be the hero, or to live vicariously through someone who's like them.

To think that media influences aren't happening, look who's talking. How does that make me a hypocrite for wanting Asian actors for an Asian movie? I never said I wanted Chinese or Japanese actors only, since Asian is a much broader term than just those two. Me and the rest of the anti-casters aren't saying there should be Affirmative Action in every single movie. That usually leads to tokenism.

For the most part, I'm fine if a single movie has a cast of one ethnicity, be it White, Black, Latino or Asian. As long as it's appropriate. All White cast for a film set in mid-west small-town America, Europe, or the like? Fine, it's cool. Hip-hop movie with all Black leads? Depending on the setting, sure. But an Asian cultural movie? We get a bunch of Asians in supporting roles in favor for the brave, heroic Caucasian. Why does that always happen?

I mean, really, you really sound like casting appropriately by race is a bad thing. I say, sometimes it's needed and others where it isn't.

Why aren't Asians allowed to represent our cultures as strongly as other ethnicities do with theirs? And why aren't we allowed more decent representation as a part of American culture, either? That's what we're saying. That's what I am trying to say and I mean no harm. Hollywood's famous directors, Clint Eastwood did it with "Letters from Iwo Jima", Martin Scorsese did it with "Kundun" and Bernardo Bertolucci did it with "The Last Emperor". Seriously, is it too much to ask for Asian actors in an Asian film made by Hollywood? It's been done before, but rarely, and it's not too much to ask.

So in conclusion and out of respect, what is my say that assumption that talent is more important than race? Here's what I say...

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Enough said.

KEYWORD: SOMETIMES

I'm sorry Lyco, but you're not even making a point anymore you're just finding something to bitch and complain about. You keep repeating yourself with the "bla bla bla Caucasians have a bigger role than Asains in AMERICAN cinema bla bla bla." I'm not saying that because it's American cinema that it's has to be Caucasian people in the movie, I'm saying that's probably going to be the majority of the race just like in Japan or Korean or Indian cinema. By your logic The Host is racist. Why is it that an American tells a Korean to pour chemicals down the drain that leads to the monster's creation? Why is it that one of the first on screen deaths is a Caucasian being eaten by the monster? Why did Americans create a fake virus to scare people? Is Korean cinema racist now because of that just like the two Caucasians in the Avatar movie are protagonists while the antagonist is dark skinned? Please Lyco stop trying to make something that doesn't even exist to try and exist because that's what you're doing. Every race in Hollywood has a role not just Caucasians. 

No, I said Chinese people would be offended, and it's very ignorant. "They have squinty eyes too, they'll do".

At the end of the day it was probably a combination of the availability of actors and making something the kids can relate to easier. It's not rocket science that people can relate to the kind of face they're used to seeing. Now I know what you're going to say, "We want our kids to understand that a person of a different colour can also be a hero", and I couldn't agree more, but that doesn't mean casting should be done by race, particularly for a movie where they need to hire child actors.

I also find it hilarious how you seem to list so many movies with good racial casting and then go on to saying how it's a big problem that this doesn't happen in a grand total of about two films.

Admit it. This is all because it's your favourite cartoon and you can't picture them any other way. You're upset because they don't look like the drawings and you're using excuses to cover that reason up. Have a bit of faith, enjoy what it does have to offer. Personally I'd be more worried about the directing and writing, being that it's being done by M. Night Shabbadingo.

It doesn't. But it just happens to be so in this movie. One movie. Based on a stupid cartoon, about children.

Yes. And you're talking about one film. Which is casting kids in the lead roles. How many of the kids who auditioned would have been Asian, good at martial arts and the best for the role? In any other movie I can imagine them trying hard to find authentic actors but this is a movie about kids which I imagine was difficult enough to cast even with the white American actors. For Christ's sake, they hired Dev Patel in one role so it's clear they didn't "whitewash" this film. They probably just didn't find enough people racially authentic, good at martial arts and right for the roles. End of.

      I think the reason you see so much objection to your view Lyco is because your posts are long. I called it filibustering which is basically taking one point or view and then repeating it in different ways. I think if you tightened up your view and used less examples you'll get a stronger argument. It's debate 101. When people got 1 min to debate you can't go on and on and on you gotta get to the point and use logic the best way you can and I think you spread out your views to thin with examples that sometimes don't apply because "we just don't know'
   
      I like to keep my ideas simple. I would love to see more talent being utilized instead of seeing the same big name actors used over and over and over. Hollywood is chicken and they love playing it safe, following a formula. Once in a while they will take a risk , sometimes it'll pay off big, sometimes it will bomb (speed racer) but if you're going to blame Hollywood you might as well blame the American audience as well, they are telling the studios what they want to see. 

@ Fury

Yeah, I agree with you and sometimes it's troubling for me to condense my words but I'll give it a try but I really feel that sometimes my points don't get across if I made it too short. I admit it's hard to make my point across shorter but will it still have the same impact? I don't get that feeling.

Plus, a good majority of those protesting the film are white themselves. They felt insulted by that mentality that they wouldn't see a movie without a white lead. If they think having Asian main characters would be a bad idea, then why is the series so successful? The objective is simple, boycott the film and it's probably the only way the studio will ever get the message across. If you feel insulted by it, don't pay for it then! Before you say that controversy means big bucks, remember The Golden Compass? Controversy actually killed the film! Even though it managed to well overseas, but domestically, it bombed and plans for sequels are now in limbo.


@ DistantJ


If that really bothers you, then go ahead and boycott every Asian film made in Hollywood that does this. That's pretty sensitive of you but wait a minute, Hollywood does this with Caucasians too! Outrageous!!!!!! ::)

Marlon Brando isn't Italian when they asked him to be Vito Corleone in The Godfather and did his race get in the way? For the fans and the general audience, they don't care about that and neither do I because despite he's a different European ethnicity, in the broader sense of race, he's Caucasian and the majority of Italy is too. Can I suspend disbelief that a non-Italian is playing an Italian character? If the actor is Caucasian, sure, it's fine. Let me guess, did you hate that "all look the same" stereotype for here, too? 

Speaking of which, have you heard of Takeshi Kaneshiro? He's a famous Asian actor who's well known in Asia because of his half-Japanese/half-Chinese background and he's played BOTH Chinese AND Japanese roles in both China and Japan for many years. Did both countries object when he performed as different ethnicities in either country? With strong, respectable followings in both countries, they actually don't care because he's well respected in both countries, despite the animosity between the two.

That is strange since he is by far, the only actor in which China AND Japan accepts him playing either ethnicity and when other East Asian actors do the same thing, they get scorned for it. Why? That's pretty hypocritical. If Takeshi isn't half-Japanese/half-Chinese, would he still get the same treatment as he is now? I kind of doubt it.

What's the main point? Suspension of disbelief. Many filmmakers always use this as a crutch for whatever crazy liberties they've made for their work. It COULD work but only up to a certain point. Can I suspend disbelief that Takeshi Kaneshiro could play BOTH Chinese and Japanese roles? Of course, because in the broader sense, they're both East Asian and he could definitely pass as either one.

As for suspending disbelief that white actor, Sean Faris is playing the popular Japanese character, Kyo Kusanagi? Sorry but I can't. In case you don't know, it's obvious you can tell the difference between an Asian and a Caucasian.

Why do you want to exclude casting by race in a children's film? I don't consider it a bad thing, I said it depends. The Harry Potter film series DID cast by race and due to the source material and by J.K. Rowling's request that she wants an all-British cast for the films, it was acknowledged by the studios and they honored her request.

Say what you will but it feels appropriate and I don't think the Harry Potter film series would be the same if it's NOT set in England or have British actors. So is it racist? To all of the fans and the general audience, who loved the series, no, it's ridiculous to say that for something like that for the Harry Potter film series when it truthfully did nothing wrong. All that I ask for Avatar is to get the same equal treatment like LOTR and Harry Potter but for Asian and Asian-American actors.

What I am saying is that could "Gandhi" and "The Last Emperor" be better by having white actors play the main roles? Doubtful.

Enough said.

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Added: August 05, 2009, 11:58:15 AM

Once again, if I could make my post short, I use to believe that "talent is more important than race" in some instances but there are other moments where I believe that is no longer in question. What I am saying is sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. After TLA, now I changed my belief into "sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't" motto and I believe it just doesn't work here.

Once again, I mean no offense to anyone but I am just only stating my opinion on it. The idea that race isn't important in ALL roles is unrealistic for me. I'm not saying ALL roles need race to be important, all I am saying is that there are roles where race IS important to the role and if it's ignored, it downplays the significance of those roles. There's nothing wrong with race playing an important role in certain roles.

You're repeating yourself AGAIN. Look, if we didn't buy what you said first time, what makes you think we will again? I've said everything I need to say on the matter, and you're just being a whiny little kid who can't get his way, complaining about an issue which doesn't exist.

This is one movie you're talking about. One film. For kids. Based on a cartoon. You're not happy with the casting and you're trying to cover it up with "Hollywood racism in movies needs to stop" when this one movie is the only real good example of your "whitewashed" cast, which features Dev Patel as a lead character anyway, and the director is fucking Asian himself.

Shut up, grow up, get on with your life, ignore the movie if you don't like it. Racism isn't accepted in the professional world today and there's no industry-wide racial bias. If a racist-against-Asians director exists (which M Night Shyamajagharablatron couldn't be because he's freaking Asian himself) he probably wouldn't make an Asian inspired movie anyway, but he wouldn't represent the whole of Hollywood. I met a racist bus driver once, did I decide that the whole bus company was racist?

Just take a moment to think of how many words you've written based on one stupid movie about one stupid cartoon, and how you've lambasted the entire film industry which has brought us racially diverse and forever memorable movies based on one silly little kids' film. If your next message is any longer than this one here, I won't be reading it.

What do you say to those who are personally offended by those Antisemitism jokes in South Park and Borat in which they personally bash Jews and/or makes fun of what they've gone through during the holocaust? Would you respond by saying "get over it, I don't care if you're personally offended by those remarks, it's just satire" You know what? They have their right to be offended by it and you have no right to tell them that they shouldn't be offended about it. If some of them are not offended by it and see through it, that's their choice and their right but for those who are and don't like the joke, who are you to believe to judge what's offensive and what's not?

If you went on acting talent only, instead of acting talent AND looks, then you might as well cast Dakota Fanning as Ozai, Denzel Washington as Iroh, and Daniel Dae Kim as Zuko. Yeah, Dakota may be the wrong age, ethnicity, or gender, but hey, she's still a great actress. Yeah, Denzel might be the wrong age and ethnicity, but hey, he's still a great actor. Yeah, Daniel's the wrong age, but hey, he still a great actor. I'm sure the audience will suspend their disbelief for two hours, and believe that:

Dakota Fanning is the brother of Denzel Washington and the father of Daniel Dae Kim,

Denzel Washington is the brother of Dakota Fanning and the uncle of Daniel Dae Kim,

and Daniel Dae Kim is the son of Dakota Fanning and the nephew of Denzel Washington.


*/facepalm*


Yes, it may be an extreme example, but the main point is still there and I don't care if you find that right by YOUR logic that talent is more important than race or even sometimes gender for that matter, but it proves my point why acting talent alone is NOT always enough.

Here's what I think. If a character lives in a past world, a historical world, fantasy or not, then race does matter. Why? Because in historical worlds, you're not going to see White people living among the ancient Chinese. You're not going to see Asians living among the ancient Romans. You're not going to see Native Americans living among the ancient Africans. Anything otherwise is forcing the audience to suspend TOO MUCH of their disbelief, which is very unnecessary.

You know what? It might not be pretty to hear about discrimination. It's even harder to face it daily. Whining is how we were finally granted the right to sit at the front of the bus.
So stop whining about our whining and YOU get over it. It's patronizing to believe that most viewers are so intolerant and narrow-minded that they must need a white viewpoint in a story in order to 'get it'.

If you form a topic about other subjects outside of here, then I would be happy to join in on your conversation on it and leave race out of it but we're staying on topic here! If you don't like it, fine then but I have the right to express my opinions on it and if you dislike or disagree with what I have to say on certain things, tough luck. Personally, I don't care if you're not going to respond.

This is going nowhere. You're wasting everybody's time. If anybody else was interested there'd be more posts in here than just you and me. You're just pissing people off, particularly the admins, and you're just driving the same points home over and over again.

Don't watch avatar, and shut up.

- Lock -